Back in the day, when the Soviet Union WAS really our biggest enemy, the question of presidential politics would inevitably revert to the question " Which one would you prefer to have their hand on the launch button?" In my mind, it most certainly is not Mitt Romney!

Art - no record? Bin Laden? Decimation of al qaeda? Keeping us safe at home? You may recall 9-11 actually occured under the last hawkish Republican. More aircraft carriers didn't work then, why would it work now? Romney - bayonets and horses. Obama - fierce sanctions, cyber, bio, loose nukes - in other words - a 21st Century approach, smarter, leaner, meaner.

Although Romney did not disappoint on flip flops. Now he totally agrees on a 2014 Afghan withdrawal. Wink, wink to those moderate women out there. What happened to it's a big mistake to telegraph our timeline, and "listen to the generals on the ground" before making any decisions?

Oh, and the air brush on Auto Bailout. Oh yes, of course I was for bankruptcy supported by financial guarantees by the government - just like Obama did. I love cars. Wink, wink to Ohio. Cynical and deceptive.
[actually, it was "provide guarantees for POST-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk". This is NOT what he said tonight]
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html

Does anyone REALLY think Moderate Mitt would show up in the White House? Not a chance. Especially not with the crew he hired from the W and Cheney administration.

Poor Mitt... Thinks we need a Navy that approaches 1917 levels...Does he still believe that the Battleship is the most potent ship in the US Navy's fleet?

@ Erin. While yes, 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, are you that naive to think that the terrorists planned all that between Jan. - Sept.? No they did not. It was years in the making. And perhaps if the beloved Democrat Clinton wasn't preoccupied with lady friends in the oval office and paying more attention to national security, he could have prevented any of this from happening. Obama is weak on the economy, weak on foreign policy. He was never qualified for the job in the first place. He may have been aggressive last night, but it's too little too late.

Art & Rachel: I am constantly amazed at the hypocrisy on the right. If the 9/11 event had happened while either Clinton or Obama were in the White House, the right would have been all over it like white on rice. There'd almost certainly be "investigative" committees of Congress formed and BS thrown. The right blames Obama for a poor economy, but ignore the fact that it was in the crapper and careening rapidly downward before he was even elected. You blame him for not having some magic wand to wave and make everything OK in a heartbeat, but nothing about the 3 trillion dollars Bush/Cheney put on the national credit card for their pet wars (to say nothing of the lives lost, not only of our soldiers but even the innocent Iraqi men, women and children who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time). After Obama took office, not only did the downward slide stop, but on several levels the economy is on an upward trajectory - not instantaneously or rapidly, it's NEVER done that - but overall on the move up, in less than 4 short years. NO ONE, not even Mitt with the Magic Underwear, could have done much better. And OBL? Had he been killed while Bush was in office, the right would be demanding a new memorial be built to him on the Mall in D.C. and asking the pope to beatify him. Spare us the glaring hypocrisy...PLEASE!

This will show why the navy is down sizing, deleting, the big "OLD" boys in the fleet,
This boat in the vid. was built on the great lakes, in Wisconcin, Dort County. sea trials on Lk Mich., there are two builders, Bayside....... (?) and a place in Alabama., some thing like 10's a yr. They can do over 50 close to 60 mph, (says 40 knots ) mph is more......... The old POP guns you saw in the old ww ll vid's, trying to bring down dive bombers are gone, one 200 rounds p m. gun is on deck, for up close fighting, like Pirates ......... etc I think all should watch and just see how quickly the battle field is changing .... if your voting, male female,. take a couple of minures, to see the speed, (like an cigarette boat) but over 100 ft long, with missiles, and " "stealth like" although a G Lakes Capt, as he was up bound on michigan, said He saw it on radar as soon as it came out of "Death's Door" passage, the area at the tip of wisconcins little finger.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1PXcT0qOO8&feature=related

T

The littorol class high speed, shallow water, 40 man boat, (dwn from 150 to 200 ) has been commissioned the Uss Ft Worth, started bulding 6 yr's ago, now the Marinnate Wisconsin, on the Great Lakes, is the first of many, the assy line has been laid and tweaked, so if your crossing lake Mich. on one of the car ferries, don't panic if you sea another stealth like boat out and about, being tested........ I was not in the Navy, nor politics, just proud of our Great Lakes...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpUfZvzH2Xc&feature=related

http://www.kohl.senate.gov/newsroom/pressrelease.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1464=5234

give your fingers a rest and learn what Romney poo'd poo..........

And Romney? His plans are to immediately cost you several trillion in tax cuts. What's a few more trillion between friends? Go to his website and look at the math. Hint: there isn't any!

You asked for it. Obama's Second Term plan laid out in specifics:
20 page pamphlet released today -

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Jobs%20Plan%20Booklet.pdf

Chief - Obama's plan for the Debt Deal: $2.5 dollars in spending cuts to every $1 of new revenues, at least $4 Trillion in cuts. A BALANCED approach to debt reduction and self-sustaining budgets that are PROVEN historically. Republicans said they wouldn't even accept a $10 cuts to $1 revenue ration. Sound rational and doable? Please show me in the history of the world where cutting your way out of recession worked...

Romney's plan - 25% accross the board spending cuts in things like FDA inspectors (see menengitis outbreak from unregulated compounding pharmacies) and FEMA (see looming storm of the century).

the challenger always can say what ever, since it is not reality, it is a poke in the dark. if he wins, see how quickly the foreigners get put out by his " I am better then you, with a smile".......................

Stacy, I watched Fox until 11:30 last night, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Broken record speech! That's exactly it... "I know how to fix this economy!" Uh-huh? And how is that exactly?

ecnalubma, I will say it, Obama won last night. And he did it by looking snarky, petulant, and condescending. Not very Presidential. Obama has total home turf advantage on Foreign Policy. He has the wind at his back, the best lay of the green. Every advantage is his. He gets daily briefings, when he attends them; he has the entire State Department at his disposal. At best all Romney could hope to get is Condi Rice to help him out. But she has been out of the loop for 4 years. What do you expect? In fact, as I think about it, I might have to change my mind on that comment of who one. The President should have a much deeper knowledge of the facts when it comes to this subject and with the whole state department at his disposal, I would have hoped to see a lot more vision and agenda from him. We didn’t. Instead, he spent most of his time attacking Romney with silly little snipes. I am going to have to rethink my statement above, I will get back to you.

ecnalumba - hate to say, but Gov. Romney has just as much foreign policy experience as the President did at this point four years ago, so I think your on-the-job training point is off track. The reason these two men agreed on so much, in my opinion, is that the truth is the U.S. has long-determined foreign policy in the big picture. Presidents will make minor adjustments based on world events, but the large picture (for israel, against terrorism, againt rouge nations getting nuclear) won't change no matter who holds the office. The question last night was more about whether people -undecideds - felt he would be a compentent commander-in-chief. And it appears most polls feel people are comfortable that he would. So, as expected, it comes back to domestic issues.

I don't recall Obama having any prior experience in foreign policies.

Mitt won the first, Obama the last, the 2nd was a tie. DRAW. What it comes down to is: which is more important - the economy or the economy.

Talk about inexperience? What experience did Obama ever have to make him qualified to be commander in chief? I say you are right about one thing - on the job training will kill more Americans - yes, I do say we have 4 dead ones in Libya.

Talk about inexperience? What experience did GWB ever have to make him qualified to be commander in chief? I say you are right about one thing - on the job training will kill more Americans - yes, I do say we have thousands of dead in Iraq and Afganistan.

"What experience did GWB ever have to make him qualified to be commander in chief?"

And look how well that worked out!

Dear Rachel Miller
Talk about inexperience? What experience did Obama ever have to make him qualified to be commander in chief?

Joe Biden. That's why they picked Biden, because they wanted to give Obama some gravitas on FP.

R. Gibson - Don't give Obama that much upper hand on information. Romney has been getting Foreign policy briefings and access to the State Dept since mid-September, as is standard for the challenger in a election at that point.
Maybe Romney should've skipped the beach volleyball yesterday instead of skipping his daily briefing.

Thank you, Daryl, I agree that the debates are for entertainment value mostly. And I agree also that people should educate themselves about the candidates rather than relying upon pundits and spin. It's a shame most folks spend more time analyzing what kind of coffee to order than they spend actually learning about the candidates (especially judicial, school and county/local candidates).

The detailed plans are just as meaningless, Patrishkoff.

Daryl - well said. People need to take a few minutes and figure things out for themselves by looking at non-biased sources, then make their decisions. Same goes for the 6 Michigan proposals. If you watch tv and vote with the ads, many props will get passed. But if you read what the props are about, most are an easy "no". Heck, I even agree with the Free Press (maybe first time ever) - Yes on 1, No on the other 5.

the incumbent should always win, on For. Pol. since he had to make decisions under the gun, the challenger, can sit back in ivory towers, and take shots, at should of been done, all after his team presents what 47% of the people want to hear. Plus he does not have the info from the "boots on the ground." most of you couldn't fix a kids cut, w/o shaking.. or taking to E R. bravery at the key board

Actually, submarines have been around since the Civil War. Carriers since 1918.

Kelly - The Navy doesn't need more ships and the US doesn't need to spend trillions more on defense. That's the point that Romney still doesn't get.

I think Romney's position on increased defense spending is a classic case of "throwing money at a problem". Apparently, rather than analyze what is needed, he simply wants to spend more money for the sake of spending more money.

J Q, read the Boat reply above.

Yeah, Obama had nothing to do with it. And Roosevelt had nothing to do with victory in Europe and Lincoln had nothing to do with the Civil War. What sap.

Massive cuts are called a military stand down. No sane person would advocate maintaining troops at the levels that we had while actively fighting two wars.

Kelly - "No sane Pres would not get that intel and not pull the trigger." Seriously?

So why did W not act on intel "Osama bin Laden determined to strike in US"? Decline to send in the troops the generals were begging for when OBL was in Tora Bora? Why did W say he wasn't worried about OBL 6 months after 9/11, and prematurely close down the OBL special unit? Why did Rumsfeld and W AGAIN decline to move on a Pakistan target in 2006 where informants were sure OBL was holed up?

WHY? Because the W foreign policy was based on keeping the boogie man alive and well so they could invade at will, spend tax payer money like a drunken sailor, keep Americans feeling dependent on that admin by arbitrarily raising the threat level, and trot our "new" OBL video 4 days before 2004 election while Cheny warned that if Kerry wins "we will get hit again, and hit in a way that will be hard to recover".

And why DOES a president make that risky call? Even knowing that the same type mission went horribly wrong for Carter, and could wreck political chances? Because he has guts, and believes it's important to bring killers of US citizens to justice - NOT keep boogie men out there to serve political ends. If Obama has the chance, I have no doubt he'll do the same for the perps in Bengazi.

What is up with the Israel love fest? Israel is an ally. yes. So what? We have lots of allies. We share common enemies. Yes. So what?

Israel is being used as a buffer between America and well-armed Middle East terrorists. It sucks for Jerusalem, but it works for D.C.

Israel was formed after World War 2. The country was not formed on new land.

Concerned - really, what was with the Prince of Peace act last night (I lost count how many times he said Peace). He's been rattling his saber for 2 years.

I saw some old footage of GWB in 2000 debates - almost exact same things Romney's saying wrapped in his "compassionate Conservative" cloak. And I think we all know how that worked out. Literally made me feel ill to see W making the very same promises. Scary...

It's clear to anyone who has even a shred of memory left, that Romney needed to say one thing to win the nomination, but now he's trying to appeal to the rest of the country. Anyone remember all the talk about 'job creators?' We haven't heard that for a while -- because that course was hugely unpopular. Instead his spin team realizes he has to start talking about the 'middle class' who he had barely mentioned at all before. He is not leading. He is not coming up with his own ideas. He is trying to appeal to the masses because if he says what he really believes (as he did behind closed doors about the 47%) he will stand no chance of getting elected.

How freaking terrifying is that? Because we have no idea who he actually is and what he plans to do if he's elected! My guess is that he will have to toe the line of Grover Norquist and the far right who have paid for him to get where he is now. Get ready for an overturning of Roe vs Wade. Get ready for a massive cut in federal spending on areas that affect the poor and the middle class. Get ready for a return to the stupid economic policies that threw us into the greatest recession since the Great Depression. There is no other way to pay for the trillions of dollars of tax cuts he has planned.

Romney is not a social conservative, anybody that's paid attention beyond the last 2 nomination cycles knows that. He is a staunch fiscal conservative, and that's what we need. Frankly, despite my disagreements with him on social issues, I'm happy to see him coming back around to his roots as a relative moderate. I just wish he'd realized this far earlier. Then the combination of Ryan and Romney would really have run away with this (appeasing moderates at the top and social conservatives at the VP level).

Mark Anderson - as someone who's voted for Romney before, I know how he governed before in MA, who he was surrounded by (Dems that pulled him left), and who he had advising him - moderates.

But in this campaign, his rhetoric was "severely conservative" all around. One might say, that was to get through the primary, appease the base. However, I've closely followed R politics for decades, and I recognize most of the advisors he's chosen - the worst of hawkish neocons on foreign policy, the worst of the delusional trickle down theorists for economy and not a moderate to be seen. These guys scare the heck out of me.

Given that, plus the fact that the national Republican party is the furthest right I've seen in my lifetime, with virtually no moderates left, I see absolutely no way he comes in and actually governs as "Moderate Mitt". He's shown little to no capacity to stand up to the most extreme voices during the campaign, I don't see him doing so surrounded by the far right folks he's chosen to guide him in a potential Romney presidency.

You're free to vote as you will, but if he wins, I'll be saying "I told you so" when the stuff starts flying.

Tim what then do you say about Obama attending a fundraiser with Jay Z and Beyounce while Benjamin Netanyahu was in town, or going on "The View" while the UN meetings are going on, or heading off for fund raising in Las Vegas, even before the smoke had cleared in Libya and the bodies of our citizens and Ambassador was even brought home.

Yes, Detroit will never forget that the bailout was initiated by Bush, and simply carried through by Obama. President Obama has overwhelming confidence in his own personal charm, but his bows to foreign leaders and speeches laced with platitudes will do little to protect and advance American values and interests around the globe. Instead, respect around the globe is generated as a result of bold action and supreme confidence in our nation’s responsibility as the world’s preeminent defender of liberty and freedom. Mitt gets this, Obama does not.

.

So, Gibson! Obama forgot his cell phone when he left DC?

At least William, Obama doesn't kiss ugly bearded princes from autocratic sexist oil-rich countries.

Hey Monty, it’s the hypocrisy I can do without. Tim throws Romney under the bus because he had a fund raiser in Israel. But as far as you are concerned, it is ok for the Hip Hop President to head off to Vegas for a fund raiser, while our Ambassador and 4 other American security personal lay murdered in Libya. To add insult to injury, the President then comes out and tries to suggest that this was all some mysterious spontaneous reaction to a movie that virtually no one has ever seen. Maybe if he attended his security briefings, spent a little time watching the video of what happened and worked the phones with the state department a little more, we might have a coherent answer from the White House. It was a terrorist attack.

Thank you Gibson for your learned analysis of the tragedy in Bengazi - a city neither one of us knew existed until a few days ago.

William, if you think that Mitt has respect around the globe and President Obama does not, you have not been paying attention. Obama was received as a rock star in capitals around the world and Mitt was labelled "Mitt the twit" on his one and only attempt at international relations.

Tim...you want to vote for this guy?

NEW YORK (AP) - Donald Trump has a deal for President Barack Obama - if he releases his college and passport records, the New York real estate mogul will contribute $5 million to a charity of Obama's choice.

Trump made the announcement Wednesday in a video posted to his Twitter account. He called Obama "the least transparent president in the history of this country," and said the deal would end voters' questions.

Trump has endorsed Republican Mitt Romney in the presidential race. Trump drew broad publicity last year for questioning whether Obama was born in the U.S. and eligible to be president, forcing Obama to release his long-form birth certificate.

In the video, Trump said he was proud to have pushed Obama to release the birth certificate or quote - "whatever it may be."

Hey Tim,
Those docs will never see the light of day because they would show Obozo to be an illegal President. No other reason he and others have spent so much money to keep them under wraps.

Ray - To riff off of Forest Gump: A Romney presidency would be like a box of chocolates. You’d never know what you’re gonna get.

Angie, really? A dictator?

I have been looking for examples of an "apology tour" for months, and I haven't not found anything any reasonable person would judge to be an "apology speech". I ask Republicans online to cite the words or paragraphs they believe is an ill-conceived apology, and no one has don that so far. I get generalities, like "See his Cairo Speech" and I can't find anything in the text of the speech that is an apology. Of course, if you define apology as criticism of US policies, Mitt Romney has been on an "apology tour" for two years.

Ironic words from a man whose candidate has run up more debt in 4 years then another other President in the history of this country.

Does that mean you support repealing the Bush tax cuts? That would make a huge dent in the debt.

Oh, that boring old Savings and Loan thing under senior, that pesky old Wall Street meltdown. What good republican would want to regulate all that boring greed. and who want to talk about all those silly weapons of mass destruction that sucked the life out of this economy. Yawn is surely what you have been doing for a long time

Rachel, you see the problem is that a lot of people, yourself included, can't seem to remember that the train ran way off the track prior to Obama becoming president. Now, they want to blame Obama for the damage your guy did. Complaining about "blaming Bush" and "Bush Bashing" is simply a technique to try to avoid placing well-deserved responsibility and blame for an economic crisis and two pointless and unpaid for wars, and converting a budget surplus to a budget deficit (for no good reason) where it belongs. It's more satisfying to blame the one cleaning up the mess than to acknowledge your own part in causing it.

How tender! The president disregards the Constitution and Congress and the GOP does nothing? If there was something to your smoke, you'd have a cigar.

Sounds like Mitt's 47% speech.

This is a stupid and pointless discussion. Obama's FP experience was minimal at best when he was elected. Bush 41 is the only president, since Eisenhower, that had any Foreign Policy experience. Reagon didn't, Clinton didn't, Carter didn't, Ford didn't, Nixon didn't, Kennedy didn't. That's why they hooked up Biden to Obama. To give him some gravitas, because he had no FP expereince. Do you really think Biden was such a great choice for VP? He was a junior Senator at the time. His expereince was minimal at best. Heck he wasn't even there 1/2 the time, he started running for office 6 months after he arrived.

As Vice President for Eisenhower, Nixon had no foreign policy experience?
Gerald Ford? Who was the HR Minority Leader during Viet Nam?
Johnson? He was a reservist during WW II and a member of the Senate Military Affairs Committee.

Gibby, you're blowing smoke.

This is the same impression that many Americans saw last night. One of the reasons why the CBS focus group chose Romeny instead of Obama, much to the startled sadness of the two hosts. Many today are claiming Romeny won just because or what you stated above. Good observations.

Ok Sue, what is Obama's solution?

I thought Willard said the government can't create jobs.

Sue C - we're still waiting for the trickle down jobs from Bush's two tax cuts for "job creators" 10 years ago. Any minute now, sure of it. And if not, well, those same policies are SURE to work THIS time, right?

Again..Romney is quoted as saying.."Government does NOT create jobs". His next appearance.."I will create 12 million jobs in four years." Which is it?
I will stick with the man who has lead this country out of the brink of depression, and knows how the military operates. The man who does not flip flop, and has accomplished more than any other President in a short time all the while, from day one, being fought against every step of the way. The President is right, Obamacare does cover pre-existing conditions, Romnesia being one of them.

Sue C - I'll tell you why he's so confident: 12 million is the projected job growth in the next 10 years if policies stay the SAME, no changes. So Romney's big promise, is what's projected anyway, if he just shows up and does nothing. Wow! I'm promising what's already projected, then ripped some pages out of W's economic notebook to make my economic plan. I LOVE all the new, bold ideas set to "take our country back". Yeah, I'd rather NOT take our country back to W's policies.

Scot - you're right. Wink to Virginia with the non-existent 1 Trillion in defense cuts - it's part of the sequestration threat that BOTH parties in Congress agreed upon to force a balanced budget deal. Sequestration and its defense cuts will NOT happen, but Romney's happy to once again make a flat out falsehood part of his talking points as if Obama himself has already cut that amount. Current budget is to keep costs flat over next 10 years, and reshuffle where $$ goes - take out of 20th century tanks, and put that $ into technology to fight the bigger threat - cyber. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/11/14376572-panetta-cyber-intruders-have-already-infiltrated-us-systems?lite

Romney did hold back his usual quip "Obama is extraordinarily foreign"....that is, in his thinking about how America, of course. He totally is not implying Obama is foreign even though he constantly uses that term to describe our POTUS. Wink, wink birthers. But he did add the veiled "I'm a son of Detroit". That's right, no one's asked for Romney's birth certificate. Keepin' it classy.

Romney gave his article a more appropriate title. The NYT decided to make it more controversial. He suggested exactly what happened except he wanted the bankruptcy to follow the law. Obama ignored all established contract law and turned GM over to his union contributor friends. We all stood by with mouths agape at that chutzpa. Unfortunately many sources conclude that our industry is almost back to the same point that it was before the prez took over. Navy comments were absurd.

Have you guys forgotten that GM and Chrysler both did, in fact, go through bankruptcy? A Chapter 11 bankruptcy is not a liquidation, it is a reorganization. I assumed auto workers are smart enough to know that. Was I wrong?

Amazing. If OBL was "under surveillance since the Bush administration", why the hell didn't he bother to actually GET him? Under Bush, OBL went from Mastermind of the Terrorist Threat to "not that concerned with him". Obama actually made it a priority, along with taking out much of Al Qadea's leadership. Right-wingers would be fawning all over Bush's boots if it had been him to do this. As for your claim about the president's travel...YOU need to go back and do your homework! Bush holds the record for vacation time (180 days at the ranch in the first year alone, not to mention the trips to Poppy's in Maine). And "socialist"?? You obviously are not even remotely aware of the word's meaning. Quit trying to create a false character to rail against, simply because you don't like that the guy looks "different" from you and your friends...

In the first debate, Mitt was combative and the President was criticized as not being engaged. Now that it is the other way around the President was a "spoiled teenager"? You will see what you want to see I guess.

Bryce... America does not read articles ... America reads headlines "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" By Mitt Romney -- I kind of know this stuff... been in the Advertising Business for over 30 years. Thanks for your response.

Except that Mitt wanted imaginary private money to come forward and bail out the banks. It wasn't there.

And ….you……… are from Trenton???? Look up how many tax dollars Chrysler LLC Group contributes......over there on Van Horn Road.

https://is.bsasoftware.com/BSA.IS/default.aspx

Look up your neighbors’ taxes and water bills too.........We were the MOTOR CITY for a reason......until all of you traitors started buying your imported cars. I'd bet my kid's lunch money that you are driving an imported piece of crap and then you wonder why Michigan was failing. He was set up to fail…….but he hasn’t. Pay attention…….Chrysler paid their taxes…….did you? If not ..that is what is carrying you. And it isn’t just Chrysler……it is Ford and GM combined that has kept us alive. We aren't the Tire capital..... the Stove capital.....the Salt MFG Captial.....we
ARE ........ the MOTOR CITY. The UAW is strong….and we will carry the vote as well.

All bankruptcies are "managed". A Romney style bankruptcy would have completely destroyed the US auto industry.

At the time, with the banking industry on the verge of collapse, there capital required to take GM and Chrysler through a Chapter 11 bankruptcy did not exist. They would have had to be totally liquidated - Chapter 7. Their suppliers, many of whom also supplied Ford, would have been likewise destroyed, eroding Ford's ability to continue operations.

But all that would have been alright with Romney, because he stood to make money no matter what happened. In fact, he did make money off the auto industry rescue.

Remember always, Romney is a vulture, er, venture capitalist with money stashed around the world. If someone in China takes your job, he doesn't care - he'll make money regardless. He is his own nation, and inserting him into the White House would merely set him up to further line his pockets.

Let him go make his money without dragging the US into the pit. Obama/Biden/Democrats 2012

And ….you……… are from Trenton???? Look up how many tax dollars Chrysler LLC Group contributes......over there on Van Horn Road.

https://is.bsasoftware.com/BSA.IS/default.aspx

Look up your neighbors’ taxes and water bills too.........We were the MOTOR CITY for a reason......until all of you traitors started buying your imported cars. I'd bet my kid's lunch money that you are driving an imported piece of junk and then you wonder why Michigan was failing. He was set up to fail…….but he hasn’t. Pay attention…….Chrysler paid their taxes…….did you? If not ..that is what is carrying you. And it isn’t just Chrysler……it is Ford and GM combined that has kept us alive. We aren't the Tire capital..... the Stove capital.....the Salt MFG Captial.....we
ARE ........ the MOTOR CITY. The UAW is strong….and we will carry the vote as well.

Why go so far as San Bernardino? If government spending, unions and taxes cause such problems, then why not look at Ann Arbor MI? How about other liberal cities like Boston, MA? Burlington, VT? Oh right, because those cities do not fit your preconceived ideas of what a liberal city should look like.

Brad, perhaps you should also look at Detroit, Flint, Pontiac, and Chicago. California is a reasonable microcosm due to the entire state's historically long-term left wing policies. And for the record, I don't have preconceived notions of "liberal" cities. I am simply looking at facts. Don't unfairly assume that everyone out there has a preconceived political agenda. I have voted both Democrat and Republican throughout the years-choosing by reviewing and assessing before casting my vote,

Palo Alto? New York? We can play this game all day long. That was my point. Picking out one "liberal" city that is having trouble and saying that it is somehow a condemnation of all Progressive ideas is wrong. I could also give you other cities (or entire States) that are considered conservative and who are also having economic problems. As a matter of fact, the poorer the State, the more likely it is to be conservative. The richer the State, the more likely it is to be liberal.

California, by the way, is currently leading the nation in job creation. Just one of those "facts" that you say you like to look at.

Kathy -
Trying to follow your logic: Obama is a San Bernadino preview, and the proof is the austerity programs implemented in Europe - which happen to be the same mythical "expansionary austerity" programs that Ryan and Romney have in their economic plans.

Romney is a fiscal conservative? Because he said so? I need additional proof. Because his 59 point plan is one filled with irresponsible, unpaid for, tax cuts, unfunded defense spending the Pentagon doesn't want. Have you read it? I have, and it reads like a recipe for a double dip. It is indeed mathematically impossible. And I hope you didn't plan on counting on that mortgage deduction for long, or key services in your community once fed funding to the states dries up. We have to pay for the "job creators" breaks (even if hiring US workers aren't tied to tax benefits, and zero data showing that's the effect of such tax breaks).

"Romney is fiscally conservative-which is what our country desperately needs to pull us from this abyss." Obama spent 4 yrs pulling us from the abyss created by the policies that Rom wants to go back to! Please tell me the last Republican president that didn't blow up public spending and explode the deficit. Please.

I do agree with you on this "I believe an economically strong America has a much better chance of keeping peace." And we are getting there, it especially will accelerate when Congress returns and realizes they can't obstruct for another 4 yrs.
I will vote for Obama.

Hmmm... how about those urgent (and frequent) warnings to the Bush administration, with titles like "Bin Laden determined to attack US", and "Unusual activity by Al Qaeda", you know, stuff like that? Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.

Rick - ONLY Fox was covering?? That's what Fox tells you so you won't turn the channel. Every other network covered the story, as well as posted it on their front page of news site.
I will say that other networks don't cover it 24 hrs a day like Fox "News" does. Too bad they didn't do the same when the illegal Iraq War was launched, and they dismantled the OBL task force because they were no longer concerned about the guy who launched the 9/11 attacks.

I think Colbert got the non-stop coverage hypocrisy right last night:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/stephen-colbert-makes-mockery-foxs-benghaz
Laugh becuase it's funny, cry because it's true.

Having family who have worked over seas in that capacity, I was beyond appalled and shocked that Romney put out a press release that night, WHILE the action was occuring and we weren't sure who was hurt/dead.
And the mom of one of the Navy Seals that died asked Romney to stop using her son's story and death (whom Rom briefly met years ago) to promote his political campaign.
This says "Commander in Chief" to anyone?

Ray Smith, I'm in total agreement. It will be the same Republican/Tea Party that we suffered under during the Bush/Cheney Presidency!

The housing crisis was caused, also inpart, due to Wallstreet greed and the Wallstreet Banks con games and deceptive lending practices. One must look at the whole picture and not be prejudice. No one is against a person being sucessful or wealthy, just fairness. Barry Soereto? not sure who you are talking about there.

It was the Republican/TeaParty under President Bush/Cheney that created the economical disaster with 2 wars etc......The money of the United States went to Iraq & Afghanistan to rebuild their country's. The Great Recession is world wide, just as the Great Depression was and will take years to recover from, but recover we will. One needs to show patience. President Obama stopped the decline and the recovery has been underway. How soon one forgets where we were just four years ago.

Barry Soereto is President Obamas "other" name. The fact that you don't know that tells me you eat everything they feed you. Really? You didn't know that?

A bad Photoshop job can only convince the extremely gullible: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/studentid.asp

Still trying the birther angle? Good. The more it gets hyped, the more untrustworthy the Republicans make themselves.

Now where going after names Mr. Holmes, perhaps you should join Donald Trump with your views. Oh what about Willard Romney, since were talking about names. Seems desperate hey!

Lets not foget the Muslim and birth certificate too.

Colin Powel is a very important endorsement for President Obama! He is very well respected and I feel honored to be voting for the man that he endorses!

R Gibson - "the only impact Powell would have on this race is if he hadn’t endorsed Obama." Huh?

I've been following this closely for awhile, and it was looking more likely he would not endorse ANYONE this time around. So, yeah, this is a big deal- the fact he endorsed at all, and that he's one of the last political leaders left in DC with any credibility and integrity.

Earlier this spring I got the sense that Powell was rooting for Romney - previously a functioning moderate like Powell, but Powell was waiting for more details to come out about Romney's future economic plans. Then in the summer, Powell began to express great concern over who Romney had chosen for his advisors. Remember, Powell worked with these guys, so he knows what he speaks of. Powell Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson recently said "these guys make me sick" and specifically of Romney foreign policy advisor John Bolton, "the man scares me to death." Ditto for me - I'm all too familiar with Bolton's CV, and it ain't pretty.

The Woodward book in context of the rest of his political writings, is pretty much in line with comments and observations RE: first term POTUS's. That first term is always a big learning curve, and a prez comes out the other end much more savvy. And most first termers aren't met with opposing troops plotting to put the kibosh on accomplishments from Day One.

R. Gib - let's compare endorsements shall we?

John Sununu, endorser and major campaign surrogate, who said Powell only endorsed because he's black.

Donald Trump - who timed his "Major bombshell that will change the course of the election" publicity stunt this week that just happened to coincide with the launch of Trump's newest line at Macy's. The kicker? - the ties from the clothing line by Mr. Tough on China, are manufactured in CHINA, the shirt, in Bangladesh. He was caught red faced admitting this on Letterman this week.

Romney and Indiana Tea Party candidate Richard "rape pregnancy/God's will" Mourdock. Mourdock, of course, endorses Romney. And Mourdock is the ONLY Senate candidate that Romney has endorsed AND done a commercial for; the ad is still running.

Again, the Powell endorsement IS quite significant, especially with Independents.

R. Gibson et al -

Another BIG centrist endorsement influencing Independent voters. This time from the self-made billionaire and best Mayor in America - NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg (now Independent, but was Repub for 2 terms).

"Bloomberg endorses Obama, citing Sandy and climate change"
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/01/14860173-bloomberg-endorses-obama-citing-sandy-and-climate-change?lite

Here's a one minute answer to R. Gibson's question. 1. Obama took us from a trajectory heading for another Great Depression to one of the strongest recoveries in the industrialized world. 2. Obama has not started any wars and has ended or is winding down the ones he inherited. 3. He has enabled the enactment of a nearly universal healthcare system. 4. He has done it with zero help from Republicans. It is strange that you complain about his inability to accomplish some things, such as closing Guantanemo, when that inability resulted from Republican opposition. And no, he didn't personally design the health care reform law. He had assistance from the Heritage Foundation, people in Massachusetts, and oddly enough, Mitt Romney. But he was instrumental (as Republicans have been reminding us for 2-3 years) in getting it passed.

Frankly, screw the rich. Tax them or eat them.

Very true. The Republican/TeaParty are irrational and won't accept any ideas except those of their own leaders. Too sabatoge the United States this way is sinful, hopefully enough people will vote the Republican/Tea Party out of congress.

Oh come on Jean, you don't think the democrates did the same thing when Bush got elected over Gore, or when Bush beat Kerry. The Dems will do the same thing on Wednesday after Romney wins. Wake up. That's the problem. They are both guilty. The sooner you and others realize this the better off we are all going to be.

R. Gibson, you are extraordinarily naive if you think this is business as usual. Of course political parties always hope their opponents will only have one term in office. But to strategize from day one? For individuals to state clearly that their primary goal is to make the President a one-term President? Silly me, I thought the goal would be for the country to prosper. The level of hatred and abuse that has been directed at the President is shameful and disgusting. The level of obstructionism in Congress has humiliated us around the world and caused a downgrading of our credit status. To refuse even $1 of revenue increase for %10 of cuts? This is not your parent's Republican Party. They have behaved worse than children to the detriment of the country. It is run by Karl Rove and Grover Norquist, and it no longer has the good of the country as its goal.

Tax cuts for the rich and needless wars pushed us almost to collapse. If tax cuts create jobs, why did we lose millions? We tried 8 years of that strategy and it was an obvious and terrible disaster. Taxes are the lowest they have ever been. Big business is doing extraordinarily well, but they are still not creating jobs in the US. It defies belief that people would put their faith in trying this strategy again.

I agree 100%, we don't need or want a carbon copy of Bush. I will vote for Obama because he is the best man for the job!

Don't even try John: President Obama has already released his tax returns going back to 2000. Romney has released 1 full year and a summary of 1. Romney is clearly hiding information that is material to understanding just why he has foreign bank accounts, and, thus, whether he really cares about jobs in America or his own person finances - which stand to gain if jobs created are in China. (See "Romney's Tax Plan and His Promise to Create U.S. Jobs: It's Impossible to Make Sensata Them" http://goo.gl/CGRMG)

Romney/Ryan and the Republican/Tea Party have said they have a national health care program. It is just like the abortion issue that strings along the Republican/Tea Party, they will do nothing to challenge it because there is a guaranteed block of votes for them on that issue. During the Bush/Cheney presidence (8 years of white house and 6 years of a republican/tea party congress) and nothing was done. Wake up and address the facts.

Duke + John -
Repeal and Replace with? All the good stuff, none of the bad, and it won't cost anything? Seriously? It sounds like something from Mayor Quimby on The Simpsons.

We've already passed the Republican plan, but it suddenly became an "assault to the Constitution" when a Democrat picked it up. Obama campaigned AGAINST the mandate and only agreed to it because that move was thought to be a concession to Republicans and would bring more onboard to vote yes. WHY? Because the mandate was the REPUBLICAN signature element of THEIR healthcare bill S.1770 -Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 presented by (R) Chaffee. The mandate is based on the Republican tenet of "personal responsibility". In Romneycare it's called the "free rider penalty".

John - have you read the bill? I have, and I also remember Bob Dole doing a tour of the country pitching the plan in every state. Really, do people think that Republicans from the 1990's are all dead or something? I was there, and I'm still here, and I'm sorry, just because I won't lie and agree to rewrite history doesn't make me a "libtard". I still stand by the same tenets. However, the current national party has left those behind in the last ten years. And I'm really tired of them running away from their OWN legislation like it's some bastard child they've never seen before. It's appallingly dishonest and insulting to the voters - especially moderate Republicans that have been involved in the party for decades.

FHVoice,

You are spreading lies from the Obama web site. I suggest you look at a reliable source, factcheck.org, which is a nonprofit organization devoted to exposing lies on both sides of the aisle. Any you will find...

1. Romney never sent any state jobs overseas. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-outsourcer-overreach/. This article will also explain the difference between "outsourcing" and "offshoring". It's a big distinction. Many companies have outsources snow removal, window washing, and janitorial services, but they sure haven't shipped them overseas.

2. Massachusetts’ state ranking for job growth went from 50th the year before Romney took office, to 28th in his final year. It was 47th for the whole of his four-year tenure, but it was improving, not declining, when he left. http://factcheck.org/2012/06/obama-twists-romneys-economic-record/

3. Claims of millionaire tax custs and middle class tax increases are also lies. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obama-twists-romneys-economic-record/

And I could go on like this all night but why bother.

Meanwhile, Obama is spreading the ridiculous lie that he (he himself, apparently) created 5.2 million jobs. That fable is debunked here http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-inflated-jobs-claim/

As usual, the righties like to keep repeating lies. Probably directly from their propaganda sites that seem to soothe them so much. Yet they conveniently ignore the FACT that, if we follow their logic, Bush and his crew ignored urgent, specific warnings about 9/11 - then started a 2 trillion dollar war IN THE WRONG PLACE. Let's see.... nearly 3000 dead then, but to the righties, no biggie. FOUR die in an attack in Libya, and their apoplectic. Yet they can't (or won't) see the incredibly obvious - too busy listening to their head hum...

Check your facts - on REAL sites, not propaganda. Romney's not only been caught in so many outright, outrageous lies that I've lost count, he also continues to repeat the lies after he's been caught. In public. By multiple sources.

You can't vote for a "bold face liar"? You obviously can't be voting for Romney, then.

Lies? The latest outrageous whopper from Romney last Thursday:

Romney claims he read in the "news" that Chrysler is moving ALL Jeep production to China. He's currently running ads in Ohio saying this. So now the "news" is right wing blogs? A righty blog post on Washington Examiner intentionally misinterprets a POSITIVE Bloomberg article saying that to keep up with demand, they may have to may have to do SOME production in China while concurrently running US operations at full speed.
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/10/romney_wrongly_claims_chrysler.html

The man will say ANYTHING. Do you expect to trust him in office?

And the scariest thing about the Chrysler lies... anyone is allowed to make an honest mistake once, especially in a hectic campaign. But even after CHRYSLER THEMSELVES clarified his 'mistake,' he still mad the choice to go ahead and make a campaign video with facts he knows to be wrong. I don't know what's worse -- a candidate willing to go ahead with lies, or people willing to ignore the lies and vote for him anyway. What will he lie to you about if he's elected? Once he can get rid of the moderate Mitt image and has once again to be the puppet of the far right.. I hope we don't find out.

Rom, is a well greased Weather vane, and stares at you to dare you to say any thing........... if I chsnged my stories on the witness stand, my own Atty. would ask the judge to have me thrown off the chair.........

JMB - imagine if your son was a public relations staffer in an embassy (Egypt) and put out a standard press release in an attempt quell the protest outside and a Prez candidate criticized him for "appeasing the enemy".

Imagine another son under attack (Benghazi) and that same Prez candidate rushed to the nearest podium to criticize them, saying folks haved died before this was even confirmed!

Criticize for taking 14 days for the State dept to officially call it terrorism? Seriously? I'm still waiting for the details, the heads to roll and the apologies for an illegal war in Iraq. Talk about faulty intelligence and poor leadership - a larger scale by several orders of magnitude.

Bush had drones in his head!

Baylea - what are you talking about? The guy who made the film was arrested in California on parole violations. 9-28-12 http://video.foxnews.com/v/1865461974001/anti-islam-filmmaker-arrested-in-los-angeles/

Benghazi attack suspect was arrested in Tunisia facing terrorism charges, another killed in Cairo, Egypt. 10-24-12 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57539676/benghazi-attack-suspect-arrested-in-tunisia-ap-reports-2nd-suspect-killed-in-egypt/ I'm guessing the last thoughts running through that terrorist's mind wasn't "Stop appeasing me!!"

Our partners are cooperating with us. And the ridiculous thought that this is the first POTUS to deal with Islamist extremist terrorism is pure fantasy and ideological blindness.

Eleven major attacks under Reagan including bombing of US Embassy AND Marine baracks in BEIRUT (241 U.S. Marines were killed + more than 100 others wounded) - no security increase after pleas, we retreated with NO retaliation, CIA Station Chief William Buckley KIDNAPPED, HIJACKINGS of TWA Flight 847 + Kuwait Airways Flight 221, Hijacking of cruise ship ACHILLE LAURO and of course tragic Bombing of PAN AM FLIGHT103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html

You're missing that righteous indignation thingy about George Walker Bush who started two wars, causing hundreds of thousands of casualties.

Lyn - I like the Yahoo Movie review: "Right Wing Documentary "Agenda: Grinding America Down" - "Join My Side Cuz It's Better Than the Other Side Cuz I Say So"

The left side, is composed of all Marxists, communists, and socialists, are evil people who hate God and the family structure, revel in sin and debachery. As they are saying this, they show images of Hitler and concentration camps. Totally credible. NOT

Dinesh DeSouza's 2016 - only a slightly different tack. Use audio book recording of Obama reading his book, overlayed by images of chaos - from a family fighting at a kitchen table, to riots and war around the world. Real subtle.

www.salon.com/2012/10/28/aaron_james_excerpt/

A president was removed, cause he broke every day American laws, breaking and entering, (giving the order is the same as doing so) lied about it, One more Jr lied about mass destruction, some say misintel, but cont. on course, with two wars not in the budget. So he would full fill a promise to Bush Senior. That is History......... KB, not some contrived Obama, lie.

Willard, takes pock shots, and later puts a twist on it. Like The President took several weeks to call it a terror attack, when news video clips, clearly shows, he called it that in his first " to the people" in the Rose garden..... I love "History" it makes others look so guilty................ if "Willard" can put a twist on every thing now, what will HE do to the American PPL.?

People died: Afghanistan and Iraq.

You wanna know what's tragic, Keith Best?

There were 154 U.S. military suicides in the first 155 days of 2012... That’s 50% more troops than were killed in action in Afghanistan.

It's just a matter of time before more US troops die from suicide than civilians died on 9/11. That's tragic for America... but I'm sure the industrial military complex will find a way to profit... I wonder how much they'll charge to print and distribute suicide prevention kits to soldiers. It'll probably be a no-bid, several hundred million dollar contract. Keep watching Fox News, Keith, there is still some grey matter on your brain that needs washing.

What about the Bush/Cheney presidency on invading Iraq " WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION."

Yeah, what Keith said , and what about that Pat Tillman thingy?
Really, they all lie.

Keith conveniently leaves out all that died under Bush/Cheney as a result of the WMD lie......

I never cared from Romney but once I heard about the lies that he told people about Jeep, well that made me wonder how anyone could vote for him. That was really dirty and low down .... it's sad that he has to tell lies like that to get people to vote for him. What a shame. President Obama is doing so much for the people that have been hit by the storm and thank goodness for FEMA which Romney wants to change and wouldn't even answer questions regarding FEMA when asked. President Obama deserves to be the President for another 4 years! I wouldn't want the likes of Romney in charge during a disaster.

So he is a social democrat and a fiscal (sane) democrat. The Republican/Tea Party is not fiscally responsible after the Bush/Cheney presidency which ran this country into two wars of debt and the Great recession.

Colter - your desperation is showing, and so is Romney's. That's why he had to make up this Jeep moving to China baloney.

RE: Benhazi - let's do a little comparison, shall we?

Removal of dictator + return country to representative government

Republican version – Iraq –got rid of Sadaam: illegal entry into war, lasted ten years, Over 162,000 civilian and combatant deaths (4,486 U.S. soldiers), tens of thousands maimed/injured, 1 TRILLION dollars taxpayer money, timeframe for official answers defining nature of conflict/victories/losses: 10 years and counting.

Democratic Version – Libya – got rid of Ghadafi –matter of weeks/months, 4 dead, $716 million taxpayer money, timeframe for defining nature of conflict/victories/losses: 14 days.

Do you want the guy who hired nearly all W’s advisors on foreign policy and economy, including the recent hire of “Invasion Specialist” General Tommy Franks (gearing up for NEXT war)? Then vote Romney.

If you're not up for another 4 years of GWB policies and advisors, vote Obama.

We can't afford another 4 years of Obama?? Seriously? We're still digging out from 8 years of Trickle down voo-doo economics and "spreading democracy to all four corners of the world" empire building. NO THANKS.

Personally, I've enjoyed seeing my 401K double, stock market more than double, my healthcare premiums go DOWN, my home values make huge bounce, and my friends getting jobs here and all over the country.

Obama/Biden 2012

Like the Great Depression it will take many years (10 if not more) to recover from the Great Recession which was brought on by the Bush/Cheney presidency and two wars under the Republican/Tea Party control. Be patient, President Obama has stopped the downward spiral of the economy and the country is moving in the right direction, forward. This declined economy is WORLD WIDE! Vote Obama/Biden to continue the progress.

Erin I wish I could be impressed by a Noble-winning economist but I am not. Especially since Obama got a Noble Peace prize for nothing. That organization has lost a lot of credibility with much of the world.
Obama is just another politician, he didn't make the change needed and promised. He has lied through his teeth many times and continues make excuses. He has refused to reach across the aisle and his liberal agenda is quite clear to me. I want no more of it. I hope America has seen and had enough too.
Time to give the other guy a try. If he doesnt make things better, then let's boot his butt and try another.

Sorry Erin, Obama will not strengthen our country. He will continue to divide us, lie to us and lead us into socialism. Socialism has and will never work. The debt Obama continues to add at a record pace will suffocate our children's futures. Obama care already has hospitals shaking in their boots. Big changes coming for Grandma and Grandpa. Yet our elected officials and the unions will have better health care than the rest of us. Makes me sick. I pray for a different direction.

The Chinese seem to be doing all right with Socialism.

Such a lot of crazy in this discussion. I suppose it shouldn't surprise me how many people think there is a huge godless communist plot out to get them -- I blame the X-Files and Fox news. Now that we have the internet I'd like to think that people would go a little further afield to get their news and be a little analytical about what they read. However it seems that most prefer to huddle in their bunkers and plan how to defend themselves against the coming apocalypse.

I'm not a socialist, but actually the social democracies of northern Europe work pretty darned well. They have great health care, great education systems and an excellent standard of living. And Grandma and grandpa have a lot more to fear from a voucher system than anything that's in Obamacare.

My Two Cents... If you want a good job careful what you post on Facebook. If you want a job in politics careful what you post in the Press. Op-Ed Contributor "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" By Mitt Romney Published: November 18, 2008 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html Historically will go back and forth a million times with this -- but this is going to be one of the closest presidential races in American history... and the American Car Industry... the American Auto Worker... will pick the next President of the United States of America, and they are going to pick the guy who wrote the check not the op-ed. Cities like Toledo Ohio will be the swing votes that re-elect Barack Obama for another four years. Why wasn't the Grand Old Party smart enough to see through this pre-convention...? Don't know... sometimes like a lot of things in life you have to learn your lessons the hard way... like posting frat parties on Facebook or Op-Eds in newspapers.


Samantha... thanks -- please click here before voting... 


http://factcheck.org/archives/search-results/?cx=000672474746801930868%3Aa87hh_euyka&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=Romney&sa=Search&siteurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffactcheck.org%2F

......................

http://rochester.patch.com/blog_posts/my-two-cents-f7d84694
My Two Cents Posted on November 3, 2012 at 10:17 pm

sophomoric

Worse, trolling.

Bruce - you got it - neither party is a very good choice until we get $$ out of politics and repeal Citizens United. This will take grassroots effort from the people.

Bruce,
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WOW.

Shocking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sheep to slaughter.